Episode 1- The one about UFOs
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
Introduction & Recap
Our first pod kicked off with us navigating the rabbit hole of UFOs with Jay Anderson. Jay has years’ of experience investigating the phenomenon, having interviewed most of the leading figures in this field. Additionally, he has had his own UFO experiences. During the podcast, we discussed the whole spectrum of the topic, including recent developments, the nature of the technology, the origin of the phenomenon and its link to religion.
While your initial reaction may be to scoff at this topic, recent developments suggest that it is worth taking seriously, and that there may be something other than ourselves in the skies. This all kicked off in 2017, when the Pentagon released three videos of UFOs to the New York Times. This was a watershed moment, and the legitimacy it lent to the topic caused an explosion in UFO related investigation and content. Since this point, numerous insiders have come forth with their own stories and accounts, and Congress has held two hearings on UFOs, taking place in 2024 and 2023 respectively. There has also been a bit of a rebranding, from UFOs to UAP, or unidentified aerial/anomalous phenomena.
Podcast Highlights
Jay is quite sceptical of the current disclosure movement. He believes that it may be a way to suppress the grassroots movements that were beginning to make some serious progress, and instead allow the gatekeepers of this knowledge to control the narrative and the flow of information.
Jay, like most others in this field, believes that UFOs travel by manipulating gravity, as opposed to conventional methods. This is quite similar to the warp drives in Star Trek. Essentially, rather than propelling themselves forward, UFOs use gravity to warp the fabric of spacetime around the craft, thereby moving the craft forward. Imagine placing a toy on a blanket, and the blanket represents spacetime. If you pull the blanket towards the toy at the front, and push the blanket behind it, the toy moves relative to the blanket (spacetime), without technically propelling itself forward. This is how UFOs are able to break lightspeed, without defying the laws of physics.
When it comes to the origins of UFOs, Jay does not have a definitive answer due to the mystery surrounding this subject, but he attributes the phenomenon to a combination of human and non-human sources. He views a lot of this as being secret US military tech, and potentially that of rival nations such as China and Russia. But he also believes that there is a non-human intelligence behind much of the phenomenon, which could be extraterrestrial, interdimensional, future humans, crypto/ultraterrestrials, or all of the above.
Jay traces the UFO phenomenon throughout history, and sees this as something much deeper. He references Amazonian tribes having their own mythos around the archetypical grey alien, as well as some of the religious encounters such as the Prophet Ezekiel encountering an angel, which appeared to him as a series of interlocking rings covered entirely in eyes. Jay believes that it is very possible that religion and the associated stories are connected to the phenomenon.
Jay also recounted his own personal experiences with UFOs. Jay does not claim to have been abducted by aliens, however, he has encountered glowing orbs on multiple occasions. The way in which these orbs behaved, according to Jay, could not be attributed to prosaic phenomena such as satellites, drones or natural/artificial atmospheric phenomena. He initiated contact with these orbs via a method of deep and highly focused meditation, called CE5. Although he has had multiple encounters with these orbs and each one felt very real, Jay is open to the possibility that this could be a very subjective experience that would not necessarily appear to everyone.
General Research
UFO origins: There are a number of competing theories on the origins of UFOs, assuming that there is a non-human intelligence behind the phenomenon. The most conventional theory is the extraterrestrial hypothesis, which posits that UFOs come from alien civilisations based in other star systems in our galaxy and further afield. In recent years, the interdimensional hypothesis has picked up steam. This is the idea that, rather than coming from different planets, UFOs are coming from different dimensions or alternate realities. The future humans theory gained currency when mentioned by Ross Coulthart. Essentially, the idea is that UFOs are humans that have travelled to our time from some future point, either to study their past, or to affect certain changes on the timeline. One of the more niche theories is the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis, which advances the idea that UFOs are the craft used by an ancient and advanced civilisation which coexists with us on Earth, but has until now, remained hidden. The ultraterrestrial hypothesis wades into the territory of the bizarre and paranormal, attributing UFOs to non-physical entities and phenomena.
Abductions: UFO abductions are a relatively recent phenomenon, with the Betty and Barney Hill incident in 1961 being the first to garner a large amount of attention across the USA. Since then, there have been a number of high-profile accounts of alleged abductions and encounters, including the Lonnie Zamora incident in 1964 and the Travis Walton abduction in 1975. There are a number of common tropes reported in abduction experiences, including lost time, medical analysis and experimentation, as well as sexual encounters. There are also a few recurring archetypes of beings which people claim to encounter. The stereotypical grey aliens are chief among these, both taller and shorter variants. Another common encounter is with human-looking beings, dubbed the Nordics on account of their incredible stature, platinum blonde hair and deep blue eyes. Reptilians and Mantid beings are also sometimes encountered, although less so. Some researchers, notably Jacques Vallee, simply see these abductions as modern manifestations of a far more ancient and universal phenomenon. He draws on common threads between these modern accounts, and historic tales of the fae folk, which also claim encounters with strange beings, missing time, and sexual experiences. The ultimate cause of this phenomenon in Vallee’s eyes? The ever elusive trickster, a superintelligence intent on steering human sociocultural development in a certain direction, and constantly pushing on our conceptual boundaries in an attempt to guide our evolution.
UFO crashes: Most people have heard of Roswell, the alleged crash and retrieval of a UFO by the US Air Force near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. Whilst initially claiming that they had recovered a craft of unknown origins, they ultimately settled on this being a weather balloon. Believers however are convinced that the initial claim was correct, and everything that subsequently took place was all part of an elaborate cover-up. There are many unverifiable claims that have since come out about the incident. These include but are not limited to: the recovery of an alien craft made out of hyper-advanced metamaterials, the recovery of alien bodies from inside the craft, the exterior of the craft being decorated with symbols akin to hieroglyphics and the reverse engineering of much of this technology to develop things such as fibre optic cables. Whilst Roswell is the most famous, it certainly wasn’t the first. Indeed, there are allegations of an earlier UFO crash near Magenta in Italy in 1933. The evidence for UFO crashes and their retrieval by various militaries around the world currently remains quite weak, mainly relying on hearsay.
David Grusch: In Month 2023, USAF officer and former intelligence official, David Grusch, came forward and testified under oath in front of Congress. He stated that to his knowledge, the US government is in possession of recovered alien craft and what he termed ‘biologics’, runs an active programme to reverse engineer these craft, and that has been a concerted effort for decades to conceal the truth from the general public. Whilst serving as a watershed moment, which has since led to further hearings, both public and private, it is worth noting that none of what Grusch said is based on first-hand experience. The entirety of his claims are based on second and third hand accounts.
Nimitz 2004 incident: In 2017, the Pentagon released 3 videos of UFOs to the New York Times. One of these was a video of a UFO encountered by pilots from the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group in 2004, just off the coast of California. They encountered an unidentified craft which resembled a Tic Tac, and received visual, radar and camera confirmation that this object was actually there. The craft is described as moving incredibly fast and erratically, showcasing instant acceleration and descending tens of thousands of feet in a matter of seconds, all without any visible means of propulsion. Many scientists and experts have come out and said that, if true, the Tic Tac is miles ahead of any technology we currently have (at least publicly).
Ancient Aliens and lost civilisations: The Ancient Aliens hypothesis was popularised by Giorgio Tsouklas, or as you probably know him, the guy from the Aliens meme. Proponents of this idea speculate that we have had encounters with aliens and non-human intelligences for thousands of years, that they descended from the heavens and gave us things such as religion, science, mathematics and agriculture. They take many creation myths, especially those of the Ancient Sumerians, as historical fact and blend these stories with the UFO phenomenon to create a new metanarrative. They also claim that many ancient megalithic structures, such as the Great Pyramid of Giza and the platform at Baalbek, could not have been constructed by humans at the time, and thus must have been built by aliens. Whilst mainstream historians and archeologists have pronounced this entire narrative to be nonsensical, some researchers such as Graham Hancock pull on certain threads to claim that human civilisation emerged much earlier than we currently think, and that we experienced some cataclysm which caused us to regress.
Men in Black: Most people are unaware of the fact that the popular movie was in fact based on the real life testimonies of numerous individuals. First reported by Harold Dahl in 1947, Men in Black (MIB) typically visit and interrogate people shortly after they have UFO encounters. MIB’s name comes from their characteristic attire; an all black suit, black tie, hat and sunglasses. Whilst many postulate that these are government agents, many accounts suggest that something much more mysterious is going on. MIB are often said to look almost inhuman, triggering the feeling of uncanny valley in experiencers. Additionally, they often act and speak in ways that seem extremely odd, and again, very uncharacteristic of humans. Explanations for this range from MIB being aliens in disguise, to psychic projections created by Vallee’s trickster.
High strangeness: First coined by J. Allen Hynek, this term is used to describe the bizarre and often nonsensical elements of the phenomenon and UFO encounters. There are many experiences which sound quite ludicrous, such as Joe Simonton giving a group of 5 feet tall UFO pilots some water, and in return, receiving buckwheat pancakes. It is accounts such as these that prompted Jacques Vallee to think beyond the conventional extraterrestrial hypothesis, and develop his idea of the trickster and the control system.
CE5: This describes a set of meditative practices developed by Dr. Steven Greer, which allegedly allows people to summon UFOs. Subjects will enter a state of intense focus and mental calm, and concentrate their intentions on inviting in UFOs and non-human intelligences. Practitioners across the world claim to have had encounters with NHI and craft, although tangible evidence remains scant. Additionally, there have been allegations that Dr. Greer has faked a number of CE5 encounters through the use of flares.
Remote Viewing: Developed as part of the CIA’s psychic spying programme in the 1970s, remote viewing is the practice of perceiving or describing distant, unseen targets through the purported use of extrasensory perception. Pioneered by Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ at the Stanford Research Institute, the programme ran for decades with tens of millions of dollars invested into it. The CIA’s research was ultimately made public through a FOIA request. Through this, we learnt that they concluded that although remote viewing could not be attributed to statistical chance, the results were often incorrect and the technique could not consistently be deployed to a level where actionable intelligence could be obtained.
UFOs and Nukes: There is a lot of evidence to suggest a strong connection between UFOs and nuclear weapons sites. The researcher Robert Hastings conducted over 150 interviews with military personnel who witnessed UFO activity at nuclear sites, which are detailed in his book. Whilst generally sticking to observation, on occasion, UFOs have been reported to interfere with nuclear launch activation sequences. One of the most public whistleblowers on this is Robert Salas, a former US Air Force Captain.
Project Blue Book: This was the first public investigation undertaken by the US Air Force into UFO sightings, with J.Allen Hynek as its chief scientific adviser. Blue Book collected and analysed over 12,000 reports from 1952-1969, and concluded that most sightings could be explained by natural phenomena or misidentified objects. However, Hynek later came out and claimed that he was instructed to dismiss a number of cases which could not be explained prosaically, and criticised Blue Book for its bias and lack of scientific rigour.