Genes, Death and the British Race

Discussion with Sir Walter Bodmer (Head of Cancer & Immunogenetics, University of Oxford)

Podcast available on Youtube, Spotify and Apple Music

Introduction:

I recently sat down with Sir Walter Bodmer (“Sir Walter”), a renowned human geneticist at the University of Oxford, best known for his work on mapping British ancestry and genetics.

I first came across Sir Walter’s research through the People of the British Isles (“PoBI”) study—a landmark project exploring the genetic makeup of the British population.

As someone of Pakistani heritage living in Britain today, it’s hard to escape the weight of my immigrant background. Whether it’s media portrayals of “Pakistani (insert crime here)” or the familiar “But where are you really from?”—identity is always under scrutiny.

But immigration to Britain didn’t start in the post-colonial era. Long before my grandfather arrived (in 1960), the Romans, Anglo-Saxons, and Vikings had all shaped this land. Sir Walter’s work provides a genetic framework proving that migration has been a defining feature of Britain’s history.

Sir Walter’s knowledge goes far beyond the beyond the British race and this conversation was an opportunity to touch on topical issues today such as the link between genetics, intelligence and death. Both popular topics today, discussed by the likes of Joe Rogan, Chris Williamson and Bryan Johnson (who we will touch upon later).

Genetics and complex traits:

Our first discussion related to the relationship between genetics and complex traits. This question developed from my reading of Kathryn Paige Harden and Robert Plomin, who both emphasise the role genetics play in influencing complex traits such as intelligence and therefore, life outcomes. Robert Plomin adopts the more maximalist position: “In summary, parents matter, schools matter and life experience matter, but they don’t make a different in shaping who we are. DNA is the only thing that makes a substantial systematic difference, accounting for 50 per cent of variance in psychological traits. The rest comes down to chance environmental experiences that do not have long-term effects.”

Sir Walter disagreed, and was pretty explicit describing the limitations of any such question on the relationship between X complex trait and genetics. Taking intelligence as an example, what is intelligence? Even describing intelligence as general cognitive ability (the most-used description) is limiting, excluding a whole host of other factors. I took away that Sir Walter was extremely conscious of the implication of any open discussion about genetics and complex traits, without caveating the limitations and presumptions behind such questions. And while I did press him a few times during our conversation, his answers remained firm.

Genetics and death:

The discussion moved to genetics and death. Bryan Johnson, a tech entrepreneur who is aiming to be immortal, has taken the internet by storm. I wanted to discuss with Sir. Walter how far Bryan could go, without alterations at the genetic levels, given the recent discussions linking our mortality and genes (i.e. telomeres and their link to aging and disease).

Sir. Walter was pretty pessimistic about the whole ordeal, preferring for researchers (and I assume Bryan himself) to focus on “quality” of life, over longevity. There was a few disagreements I had, especially now having rewatched our discussion. Sir Walter makes the point that humans weren’t expected to live beyond a biological age of 40/50, which is a mistaken point as such average life expectancy figures are heavily skewed by child mortality rates. The reasons for why humans live for so much longer than their reproductive years is varied, but one such explanation is the grandmother hypothesis (the theory that grandmothers play a crucial role on the survival/success of their descendants). We didn’t touch on any of this points, but definitely one I’d love to delve into in a future discussion.

Another point was my framing of the Bryan Johnson question. I should of pressed harder and given a better description (i.e. more prescriptive, detailed) of Bryan Johnson’s approach, and also discussed his experimentation with follistatin gene therapy. The limitation of any one hour podcast discussion is delving into any one topic, removes timing from the others.

PoBi

Finally, we turned to Sir Walter’s magnum opus—a groundbreaking study that mapped the genetic landscape of Britain. This extensive research involved over 4,500 volunteers, each providing blood samples to uncover the genetic history of the British Isles.

Sir Walter gave a comprehensive background, with the study identifying 17 distinct genetic clusters across the UK, each closely aligned with geographical regions. It traced Britain’s earliest inhabitants to Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, followed by Neolithic farmers who migrated from Anatolia (modern-day Turkey) around 6,000 years ago. The most interest takeaway was the genetic impact left by different groups with the Anglo-Saxons leaving the most significant genetic impact, particularly in England, whilst the Vikings influenced regions like Orkney and Shetland. In contrast, despite their profound cultural and historical influence, the Romans and Normans left little lasting genetic imprint on the British population.

Final thoughts:

A great discussion with a pre-eminent expert in his field, seems to be our matra to a tee. I think the discussion provided a great background into the world of genetics but did leave me with more questions than answers (given the limitations of a one hour discussion) and therefore look forward to any future conversations and participants such as Plomin, Paige and maybe even a conversation with Bryan Johnson himself. Who knows! Maybe if we all live long enough, we are sure to cross paths.

Thanks for reading - and can’t wait till we navigate the rabbit hole next time.

Aqeel (Akky)